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His growing influence in Rome

Pope names Cardinal Burke to three new important Vatican positions

Cardinal Raymond Burke, former Archbishop of St. Louis and current prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, the Church’s ‘supreme court,’ has been given even more responsibilities by Pope Benedict XVI.

According to the Vatican Information Service, the official news agency of the Holy See, Cardinal Burke, well known for his orthodox views, was named by the Holy Father on Dec. 29 as a member of three important congregations of the Roman Curia. They include the Congregation for Bishops, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, and the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts.

The addition of Cardinal Burke to the Congregation for Bishops could be significant for the Church’s future. The Congregation is the curial office responsible for assisting the pope in the selection of new bishops.

The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments is responsible for overseeing the Church’s liturgical practices.

The Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts’ chief responsibility is interpretation of Church law.

When Archbishop Burke was designated a cardinal in October 2010, the Catholic News Agency described him as “widely known for emphasizing the importance of a distinctive Catholic identity and for advocating a bold Catholic witness in American public life. First as bishop of La Crosse, Wis., where he served from 1995-2003, and later as Archbishop of St. Louis, where he served from 2003-2008, he spoke out frequently about Catholic obligations on crucial moral issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage.”

“In both the 2004 and 2008 U.S. election campaigns, he stated that Catholic politicians who advocate legalized abortion should not present themselves for communion,” reported CNA. “He made headlines again recently in Rome for a stirring speech in which he called for the public ‘repentance’ of Catholic politicians who support political positions that are immoral and at odds with the Church.”

“‘It is not possible to be a practicing Catholic and conduct oneself publicly in this manner,’" he said in an Oct. 14 address to Human Life International,” continued the CNA report. “He decried ‘cafeteria Catholicism,’ or the bad habit of some to pick and choose which of the Church’s teachings to obey.”


Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 5:23 AM By Juergensen
Pray that he is the next Pope. The shrieks from Amchurch would be a delight to hear.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 6:11 AM By St. Christopher
The Holy Ghost does not make it easy. Cardinal Burke is truly a lamb among wolves as he takes on yet more important Vatican duties. He is a staunch supporter and advocate of the Traditional Latin Mass. Hopefully, the world will move toward the time when every parish on earth has at least one Latin mass on Sunday, during "normal" mass times. Further, it is likely Cardinal Burke will force selection of orthodox bishops, although the pressures to take on "politician" bishops, such as Bishop Hubbard of NY, is sometimes overwhelming. Finally, Cardinal Burke uses the media well, a necessary component to bringing Satan's "Church-work" into the open. Good luck on these appointments, dear Cardinal Burke. You will have many storms to brave, now.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 6:12 AM By WOODY GUIDRY

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 6:49 AM By perrywRinkle
I wonder how many of us remember the obvious overwhelming joy exhibited by Father Pacwa when he was interviewing Cardinal Burke? Would anyone recommend that Father Pacwa be a Jesuit?

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 7:35 AM By Joe
Perhaps he can take a look at Bishop Hubbard and what he permits Gov. Cuomo to do in a flagrant manner in opposition to Church teachings.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 7:38 AM By The Truth Hurts
Amidst the raging battle, Our Holy Father is steering Holy Mother Church between the Two Columns as seen in the vivid and prophetic dream of St. John Bosco. In the End My Immaculate Heart Will Triumph! Deo gratiam habeamus! Let us be grateful to God!

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:05 AM By Thomas Szyszkiewicz
This really isn't news because he was already on these congregations as an archbishop -- he was appointed to Bishops on 19 Oct 2009, Divine Worship on 6 July 2010, Saints on 24 July 2010, and even earlier Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts and the Congregation for Clergy on 7 May 2008, while he was yet the Archbishop of St. Louis. The appointments came again because of his elevation to cardinal. It's really just a technical adjustment to deal with certain canonical issues that come up when one receives the red hat.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:49 AM By Angelo
Sounds like Cardinal Burke is papabile. He just may be the first American Pope. Even though if he is not. He will certainly make a big difference at the next Conclave. And as for now he will certainly have a say in the choosing of the new Bishop for the Diocese of Fresno. Liberation at last for us in this Diocese. Deo Gratias!

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:53 AM By Pax Christ
The wailing and gnashing of teeth from the folks in St. Louis who were glad to see him leave must be palpable now that Burke is papal material.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:20 AM By Jan Wnek
When Bishop Burke speaks of the immorality of ALL murder - abortion, death penalty, war and loving our enemies, as our non-violent Lord Jesus Christ (the Lamb of God and Prince of Peace) taught by example, then I will begin to take his words more seriously. Anything less is pure hypocrisy. Pace e bene, JW

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:29 AM By Thomas Edward Miles
Cardinal Burke is a gift to the Church, very smart, and a wonderful man!

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:43 AM By Central Valley
Amen Angelo Amen. Words and letters have been sent to Rome and pray God men like Cardinal Burke will be guided by the Holy Spirit to send a true loyal traditional shepherd to the Fresno diocese where we have suffered for years.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:51 AM By Tom Susanka
Does Jan Wnek really think Cardinal Burke is a pure hypocrite? Gosh.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 11:08 AM By Canisius
TO Jan Wnek Our Lord was not a pacifist, and he is coming to judge the living and the dead by fire.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:08 PM By The Truth Hurts
Thomas Szyszkiewicz, Maybe you should place your handy and enthusiastic bubble bursting pin back into your pocket. My friend knelt down in Rome right before Cardinal Burke and kissed his ring just a few weeks ago. Please believe me when I tell you that when this friend asked for a new faithful Bishop, his wonderful response was no mere technicality.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:26 PM By JLS
Jan W, you're back, and with the same Cartesian theology of fragmentation.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:54 PM By Robert Bushlow
What a blessing. Let's all pray for more holy leaders like Archbishop Burke. Thank you Lord for these faithful shepards.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 1:45 PM By Bob A.
As we say in New York: "What a fresh face " the New York Governor and his girlfriend have receiving communion despite living in sin. Please Cardinal Burke, comment on the giving the Holy Eurcharist by the liberal Bishop Hubbard of NY. This would bring some clarity of the state of affairs we Catholics are confronted with.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 2:14 PM By Jason
Jan pacifism, aside from being stupid, is not Catholic. If someone is about to take your life, you are entitled to kill that person if you must in order to preserve your life with no pain of sin. So much for your argument. That aside, if it be God's will, this may be the first American Pope. Either way, his service to Holy Mother Church is certainly a blessing. Deo Gratias.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 2:25 PM By Catherine
Raymond Cardinal Burke is an outstanding priest and person of moral integrity and backbone who has the courage to say what others wont ! Now the Catholic church is tired of eg fickle anti life politicians etc that want it all ! but in life you cant have it all! Sometimes in line one faces the crunch! You have to decide one way or the other so in effect Catholic Politicians MUST Vote Pro life if they want to be considered a true Catholic and not cinos( Catholics in name only)

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 2:33 PM By WVC
To Jan Wnek - Pacifism is a heresy. It was not taught by Christ (who blessed, not condemned the Centurion), nor his Apostles and certainly not by any of the Church Fathers, and never by the Magisterium. If you can't make the distinction between abortion and soldiers in war, or abortion and the execution by the state of a criminal (see Rom 13:1-4), then you have a serious problem. Cardinal Burke is consistent with the consistent teaching of the Church. You are not.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 2:44 PM By Spera Rose,OCDS
Thanks be to God for answered prayers! Cardinal Burke is also promoting the cause for the Venerable Fr. John Anthony Hardon,S.J. His motto "There is work to be done!" Resting is for Heaven. Let us pray for God to give him strength and courage to fight the many wolves in sheep clothing!

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:01 PM By Elizabeth Forshaw
Cardinal Burke is the best. I would love to have him as our next Pope. Elizabeth Forshaw (Peppy)

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:06 PM By S. Later
I never thought it would be possible for an American to become a pope, but this is the first American Cardinal I can remember who has the stuff to be a pope. I pray that he is, indeed, "Peter the Roman".

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:36 PM By Torkay
How interesting that we might have an American Pope just when the American Empire is about to collapse.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:27 PM By Linda Maria
Wish we could have Cardinal Burke for our next Pope!! Terrific!!

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:37 PM By AZBea
Central Valley; you're not the only diocese suffering for years. Diocese of Tucson is not only in an actual desert but in a spiritual desert as well.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:51 PM By Abeca Christian
Praise Be Jesus Christ! Blessed Mother thank you for your intervention!

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 5:26 PM By Juergensen
Jan Wnek writes: "When Bishop Burke speaks of the immorality of ALL murder - abortion, death penalty, war" - You are gravely mistaken. Abortion is always murder and is intrinsically evil. Conversely, the death penalty and war are NOT always murder, but rather can be justified, and are NOT intrinsically evil. Cardinal Burke and the Church are correct in not treating the death penalty and war as morally equivalent to abortion. You are incorrect in doing so, and need to buy and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 5:49 PM By JLS
Juergensen, you do not know how much I appreciate you taking the Jan Wnek bull by the horns.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 6:06 PM By Peterman
Yes SperaRose he is working to make Fr Hardon a canonized saint as he should be but I pray that he first makes Venerable Father Solonus Casey the first American born male saint. He was a boy from a Wisconsin dairy farm just like Card. Burke, it must be the Holy Spirit is at work here.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 6:42 PM By Janek
Yes, a great supporter of The Traditional Latin Mass, pray that he is our next Pope.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 6:52 PM By George Alessi
Jan Wnek must know that the right to life supersedes all other rights. Let's get our priorities straight. God bless Cardinal Burke and his strong commitment to defending the lives of unborn babies.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 7:42 PM By Stop The Nonsense
Since the New York Archdiocese is the center of the church in America And A. Cuomo is a product of same , that is more than enough reason for Bishop Burke to publically and categorically condemn this moronic flauter of his faith and his hypocrite father while he's at it.

Posted Tuesday, January 04, 2011 8:57 PM By MARKRITE
Interesting, Jan Wnek, that you morally equate war, the death penalty and abortion with murder; that's a FALSE CONCEPT that smacks of radical pacifism, which I personally don't buy into, nor do I have to, because the Catholic Church says that war, capital punishment and abortion are NOT morally equivalent. The WORST of the three, by far, is legalized abortion; from 70 million to 100,000,000 INNOCENT HELPLESS BABES have been slain in the womb through the auspices of Roe V. Wade, AND ALL THAT WENT BEFORE IT,and those totals include the deadly abortifacient contraceptives that women today take so blithely. Wake up and smell the coffee, Jan, there are such things as a JUST WAR and the HONEST USE of the death penalty to protect the rights of the weak and victimized.--GOD BLESS ALL, MARKRITE

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 5:58 AM By Thomas Szyszkiewicz
The Truth Hurts -- congratulations for your friend. I won't say anything about my personal relationship with the Cardinal for whom I worked for four years. All I'm saying is that this really isn't news because he was appointed to these positions when he was still an archbishop. I'm sure your friend did receive a wonderful response to his request. It's just that the request could have been made while he was still an archbishop.

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:09 AM By Donald
Thank you for the post. God Bless Cardinal Burke!

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:48 AM By Bob
Cardinal Burke a Cardinal? Never! Not because he isn't a nice guy, but because he is an American. We represent about 6% of the Catholic faithful. We are but a speck in the population of the Church. They like our money, but we don't have the votes. The Pope is trying to rebuild the Church as a European entity, and the growth of the Church is in the southern hemisphere. The next Pope will likely be from Europe, South America or Africa. They have the votes. Don't every believe that it isn't about politics.

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:42 AM By P.J.David
It is not only America and Europe but the Catholic church needs such bold and straight forward Cardinals,especially ,while choosing new Bishops in the place of Retiring. None of the Indian Bishops have obeyed the Holy Father Benedicts XVI and implimented Motu Proprio/Summorum Pontificum.We desperately need Traditional friendly new Bishops.Will Card.Raymond Burke listen to our humble request .Our Bishops are of the worst lot in INDIA.

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:21 AM By Susan Mary
Let's pray that Cardinal Burke reigns in the American hierarchy who are too timid to speak out against abortion, homosexual marriage, and the "Catholic" politicians who support these atrocities. Too many of our bishops here are "men without chests" as C.S. Lewis described such people. Cardinal Burke would make a supurb Holy Father!

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:36 AM By LeonG
The Church has never been against a Just War (Acquinas) nor has it been out of favour with the death poenalty justly given - as one of the thieves on his own cross admitted at the Crucifixion of The Christ - they deserved their punishment but not He. It was JPII (RIP) who advocated no capital punishment but he had a penchant for unorthodox views. Archbishop Burke need not espouse such liberal causes as they are not Catholic essentially. Abortion is murder of the unborn and needs to be critically appraised by all Catholics until it is repealed as a secular law internationally. It is time unity amongst the hierarchy on Catholic issues such as these and on the liturgy too. Since the late 1960s there has been precious little.

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:03 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Perrywinkle 6:49 AM Fr. Pacwa, a personal friend is a Jesuit, a real Jesuit! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:50 PM By perrywRinkle
Thanks, Kenneth, the cheese fell right on the spaghetti. Your response is better than I hoped for-you are a good man who carries some weight (NOT in pounds!) and I'm positive that you've helped many people realize the historical greatness of the Jesuits! I love them from a very long time ago-when as a youngster I learned from them the truth that God loves me ABSOLUTELY. (Sorry about my sneaky trap!)

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:52 PM By Karin Ficke Cook
We are so pleased with what Cardinal Burke has done so far and the confidence our Holy Father has placed in Cardinal Burke, which is gratifying and well placed. Cardinal Burke is truly God's man and we are so blessed to have him working in these areas.

Posted Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:23 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
I seem to remember that when Archbishop Burke was first called to Rome, some on this post tried to make out like he was only being called to Rome because "he is being kicked up stairs to avoid anymore trouble" or something like that. I answered them then, but the Holy Father is answering them now by kicking him up even further, thanks be to God! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Thursday, January 06, 2011 12:41 PM By Rodolfo
I’ am praying to the Holy Ghost that he might be our next pope.

Posted Monday, January 10, 2011 6:50 PM By Phil Sevilla
I'm enjoying reading Cardinal Burke's 2007 brief published in the Roman Periodica de re Canonica. It's titled 'Canon 915: The Discipline Regarding the Denial of Holy Communion to those Obstinately Persevering in Manifest Grave Sin". The man certainly has what the muddled media calls "gravitas".

Posted Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:01 AM By Ruth
Dear Cardinal Burke, I know at some point you worked so hard to have Our Lady of America installed in the Basillica in Washington, D.C. If ever there was a time for this to happen it is now!!!!! Our country so needs her. please contact the powers that be at the Basillica to make this happen. Our country needs her!!!! Thank you for having listen to me. God Bless, Ruth G.

Posted Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:38 PM By Abeca Christian
Cardinal Burke we love you and will continue to pray for you. Keep up the good fight in Christ! Feed Christ's sheep! Feed us. We are hungry for more food for our soul's!

Posted Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:20 AM By Angelo
The Truth Hurts, When your friend asked Cardinal Burke for a new faithful Bishop, was he asking for the Fresno Diocese? Or was it for another Diocese?

Posted Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:57 PM By The Truth Hurts
Angelo, No, it was another Diocese. I can tell you that when the young Catholic University students went to their appointment at the Vatican with another Church official, this advice was given to these young students after exposing the dissent. They were told that it is imperative that they continue to study and understand an take all of the proper steps to truly learn what the Catholic Church really teaches. Look at what a beautiful job k, is doing! It is wonderful to see the faith alive. Where sin and error abound, grace abounds all the more!

Posted Thursday, January 13, 2011 2:53 PM By Angelo
The Truth Hurts, Its good to know that there are those who report the dissent to the right men in Rome. The advice given those students is the best advice. I had a glimmer of hope that your friend was talking to Cardinal Burke about the Fresno Diocese. I'd be greatly dissapointed if the next Bishop would be a business as usual type leader. Bishop Steinbock was a man with a good heart. But since the late 60's, the Progressives have been a sort of dictators in the Fresno Diocese.

Posted Friday, January 14, 2011 10:41 AM By Bob
Kenneth Fisher - Re your comment on January 5th. Touche! You were right!

Posted Friday, January 14, 2011 3:57 PM By The Truth Hurts
Angelo, "Sort" of dictators? How very kind of you Angelo to soften the the dictatorial truth. The teachings of the Catholic Church should be taught and upheld in each Diocese without compromise or dictating dissent. Angelo, I am interested in hearing your interpretation, as well as others on the meaning of the word "Progressive" Catholic? What does that term mean to you, as applied to our Catholic Faith? What is the first thought that comes to your mind?

Posted Friday, January 14, 2011 4:47 PM By k
I read an NCR article with Cardinal Burke in which he stated that he wanted to be a parish priest. His duties now are to the Curia in Rome. He stated "I don't have a particular flock." I think he does have a flock. I think he is someone that we look to when we have questions. I think we have made ourselves his flock due to his trustworthiness. Like Cardinal Ratzinger before, we can have confidence that his answers will be in the mind of the Church and of Christ.

Posted Friday, January 14, 2011 7:16 PM By Angelo
The Truth Hurts, "Progressive Catholics". Many have used that term to describe certain Catholics from the past 45 years. I use that term to refer to them in a charitable manner. The terms I usually use are, liberal fanatics, Heretics, the enemies of the Church, modernists, devil incarnates, the "Non Serviam Catholics", change freaks, change mongers ect... ect... ect... When I use the term "Progressive Catholics" I never intend it to mean progress in a positive manner. Rather its a negative progress. As in they, are progressing in destroying Our Holy Catholic Faith. And many (Negative) Progressives in the Diocese of Fresno, have actually rooted out the Catholic Faith from the Catholic Church.

Posted Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:08 PM By The Truth Hurts
Thanks Angelo! Along with your beautiful recognition of that humble man at your parish, who sits praying in front of the Blessed Sacrament inside of the Tabernacle..... it is also wonderfully apparent that you have progressed in wisdom. Maybe you are one of the ten "just" men in all of Fresno. I certainly hope and pray that there are a few more. Meanwhile let us continue to pray for all of our Catholic leaders to lead along in union with the Holy Father.

Posted Saturday, January 15, 2011 2:43 PM By bev
Angelo: I believe practice of the third theological virtue calls for speaking respectfully when discussing matters with someone who sees matters differently than myself.

Posted Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:44 PM By k
In looking up Progressive Catholics, I found a very interesting thread with lapsed Catholics who want to find a "gentle" Catholic Church to take their children to. They want their children to be raised Catholic, but they don't want to repeat whatever negative experiences they had in the Church. The people are looking in the Bay Area. So my question is: Where we live and where I grew up, people are assigned parishes based on where they live. My sister wanted to be more active and her parish didn't have much in the way of ministries, so she had to get her pastors permission to attend a different parish. The justification is that it is your duty to give your parish your support and your prayers. Is it like that in California or do people actually get to choose what church they like best?

Posted Sunday, January 16, 2011 7:12 PM By The Truth Hurts
k, I guess it comes down to what they mean by gentle Catholic Church. Do they mean Cathoilc-lite teachings where certain subjects like divorce or artificial contraception is never brought up or never preached against? I discovered at different class reunions that very few people that I went to Catholic school with still attended Mass. It was very enlightening to hear the different reasons why. It was so disappointing to see that many of the absolutely brightest students had either stopped going to Mass all together or else the had turned to something else like embracing new age goofiness. This helps us understand why Our Lady of Fatima appeared to simple shepherd children. The smartest girl in our school said that it was her mother who shoved the Catholic faith down her throat and she was bitter about this. This girl was the most complacent, well behaved student. It really made you wonder what had taken place. Another student said she was terrified at the thought of ever hearing about hell as a young child so she chose not to do anything. All of these women came from large Catholic families where the faith was valued by the parents. As, you can see k, these lapsed Catholics are still internally desirous to have the faith for their children. Many adults return to the sacraments and let go of past feelings because they want their children to have the faith. Many have held a terrible grudge against something that a member of the clergy said to them. I have heard this one many times. Some cases were because the priest upheld Church teaching and they did not like it and some reported the experiencing of an unfeeling coldness from some member of the clergy. In both circumstances I always ask them if they still always believed in the True Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and they always responded "yes." They do not have a response when asked, "but what did Jesus do to you?" Gentle is good when there is hunger for the truth and the truth is not compromised.

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 5:59 AM By Bob
In California parishes are geographic areas, just like the rest of the country. At least in the Bay Area, the people go to the church at which they feel most comfortable. Most go to the local parish. But, the growing parishes, the ones bursting at the seams with 6-8 masses on a weekend are those that offer many ministries, programs for nearly everyone, good liturgies and great homilies. We even cross diocese lines. We have "traditional" parishes that are growing because the offer what a "tradional" person is looking for, etc. The day of getting the pastor's permission went out decades ago.

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 11:06 AM By JLS
bev, are you trying to put forth the idea that respect is what you say it is?

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 1:21 PM By k
Bob, thanks for the information. We have 1 Caholic church per county. It is 25 miles between churches.

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 1:28 PM By Paul P.
k - There is no such thing as "liberal or "conservative" Catholics regarding Faith and Morals. All (including Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Nuns) must adhere to the "CCC 2nd Ed". There are Catholics and there are Catholic heretics/schismatics "CCC 2089". The late Cardinal John O'Conner used to say: "The Catholic Church is not a salad bar. You can not pick and choose what you want to believe."

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 1:41 PM By Ned
k, I highly recommend that your family members and friends over age 15, read the "CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition". Everyone who comes across a Parish that does not adhere to the CCC in entirety should report it to the SF Diocese Bishop. If the wrongs are not righted within a few weeks, write to the Bishop again with a copy to the US Papal Nuncio in DC and the Vatican. Quote the date, time, location, issue in detail, and how it violates specifically named paragraphs in the CCC. Always remember that the Diocese Bishop is fully responsible for everything that goes on in his Diocese regarding the Catholic Faith. All Parishes should be teaching the same thing as contained in the CCC. All Masses should be according to the "Roman Missal" or as approved by the Vatican.

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 5:51 PM By The Truth Hurts
Ned, Excellent suggestion except you forgot to tell k to purchase a ton of stationery.

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 7:41 PM By k
Paul P.-I agree with you. I don't like that terminology either. I know someone who calls themselves "liberal' and lives according to the moral teaching of the church, but she gives assent to those ideas which are "progressive"-pro-choice, pro gay marriage, divorce and remarrieds should get communion etc-you know. So I asked her why she belonged to a church when she didn't believe in it. She said "The Eucharist" She doesn't care what is in the Bible or the Catechism and she used to be in the RCIA in her parish. She taught them that the reason women could not be priests was because in many parts of the world it would not be accepted. (!) I agree with the Cardinal and I have spent lots of money and time trying to find out what the Church really believed and why. I am still learning and I appreciate your comment. But I said a lot of stupid things about the Church while I was learning (or repeating something I had been told that was incorrect) and I am grateful to those who corrected me (or just gave me THE LOOK). There are people who are sincere and just don't know they have been misled, yet. Ned, thanks for your suggestion. What happens when you do that? I spent a lot of years being called the thought police and liturgy cop by people who heard me rant, but I never reported it.

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 9:42 PM By bev
JLS: I'll tell you what respect is NOT. Referring to baptized Catholics as "the enemies of the Church", and "devil incarnates". Who are we to judge?

Posted Monday, January 17, 2011 9:53 PM By bev
k: I too live in the Bay Area and concur w/Bob. However living in a rural area is a totally different situation as you really have no choice in parishes. In that case you might recommend they watch conservative programming on TV (if that is their preference) and they can glean a lot of info. by going online and of course reading newspapers, magazines and books on topics in which they are interested.

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:39 AM By JLS
bev, in your quest to discover the meaning of respect, you should inform yourself on the topic of judgment and discernment, two important things to understand. It is hard to respect a person who stubbornly insists on the virtue of shallow ignorance.

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:06 AM By The Truth Hurts
bev, In response to your January 17th, 2011 post at 9:42 Perhaps you've been in a selective cocoon because I have heard very faithful priests say the same thing as Angelo and also much harsher statements. Who are we to judge bev? I will tell you who we are to judge. We should all be united Catholics who desire to follow all of the teachings of the Catholic Church. There are baptized Catholics who are very informed about Church teaching and their sole purpose is to undermine the authority of the Magisterium. These are actions that are not only contrary to Church teaching but some of these evil actions have absolutely been authorized and pleasing to the devil. Yes, bev, they are enemies of the Church. Have you not been paying attention bev or is this more about personal human respect at the expense of the salvation of souls? Each little disobedience has chipped away the foundation of total unity. This is why we are having this conversation. bev, Are you the person who would not admit that there has been an abuse in using lay people to distribute Holy Communion when not necessary? Obedience means obedience. Just like society has been dumbed down in our schools, so have many of our well intentioned brothers and sisters in Christ. This also means following the proper instructions from Rome on the abusive use of lay people used as Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion. There has also been a disguised false urgency to give the laity roles that are only meant for the priests. Some Catholics who are well intentioned just either go along or do not really question or research if they are enabling this false agenda that has spread within the church. bev, if you are a faithful Catholic you should be supportive of the exposing of error within the church. You should be praising Angelo for having the courage to tell you that your house in on fire.You do know the ol' saying about what the end result of good intentions are.... "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2011 11:38 AM By Abeca Christian
Just because someone is a baptized Catholic, it does not give us/them a free ticket to do whatever we want to. Actually a Baptist Catholic is held more accountable for his actions. I know that people freely want more "respect" within their definition of "respect". Perhaps we should have a dictionary that defines what is respect from each particular group. The only respect I understand more fully is the one we give to the dignity of every human being, human life, life. But sometimes respect is abused to help condone sinful behaviors, some people go as far as expecting respect even when they are committing or leading others to sin, calling them on their sinfulness is in their eye;s considered disrespectful, thus ending all types of dialogue. I would say though that we can reach more people with understanding their definition of respect, by dialoguing in their level to help them understand and reach truth. After that, when all fails, admonishing the sinner with harsh words can be, depending on the circumstance, can be justifiable. But first try honey. The sweetness of truth comes in all forms, admonishment coming from our Lord through others, can be honey and a sweet song in Christ, but our bad will does not help us understand such things.

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2011 8:04 PM By bev
k: re your post yesterday at 1:21p. So sorry, I reversed your living situation with that of your friends. 'Tis you who lives in the boonies! Anyway, my suggestion would remain the same for you and other parishioners at your church. Seek out TV, newspapers, magazines and books which address your interest in the Church.

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2011 8:32 PM By bev
To The Truth Hurts. Angelo and others: I am a "cradle Catholic" and a member of the mainstream Catholic Church which is present in 95% of the parishes in my diocese, altar girls, but no clown/puppet Masses. I love my Church. I do not call other people names nor criticize them for their beliefs.

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2011 9:13 PM By k
bev:Thanks. Having the internet helps when you are rural, too. I like that you don't call people names.

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:19 PM By Angelo
Bev, most of the expressions I used, I did not invent. Take "devil incarnates". God uses this exact phrase to describe certain Catholics to St Catherine of Sienna, a Doctor of the Church. The term "non serviam Catholics" have been used by many spiritual writers to describe Catholics who reject the true teachings of the Church and refuse to submit to the authority of the Church. The cry of lucifer before being cast into hell was, "Non serviam, non serviam" "I will not serve, I will not serve" Thus the term "Non Serviam Catholics" Lets not fall into false charity. It offends God and does not further his Kingdom. God is Charity and Truth, not erroneous tolerance nor the denial of absolute truth.

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:49 PM By Abeca Christian
bev I respect what you are saying. I may not agree with everything you say but I can respect you for your honesty.

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 5:42 AM By Canisius
Hey Bev, God gave us reason, that is basis for making judgements, no more live and let live it has nearly destroyed the Church

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 6:31 AM By JLS
Angelo, your reference list is refreshing. It reminds me that the Saints and Doctors of the Church say things that tend to shock the unread Catholics whose use of the pews is to fall asleep spiritually.

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 8:10 AM By Oscar
bev, we are NEVER to TOLERATE or be COMPLAISANT about SIN - including the sins of others, or we will be sinning ourselves. CCC #1868, 1869, and 2480.

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 12:07 PM By The Truth Hurts
bev, There must be a specific reason that you read California Catholic Daily where many of the topics are exposing gross acts of dissent as well as disobedience from within the Church. You stated that you are a member of the mainstream Catholic Church which is present in 95% of the parishes in your diocese. That 95% is not a telltale sign of complete faithfulness. A large majority of Roman Catholics in the U.S., Europe and developing countries quietly ignore the Church's teachings banning artificial birth control. Another study that caught our Bishops attention was commissioned by Rev. Peter Stravinskas, a well-known Catholic apologist & editor of The Catholic Answer. In 1992, he obtained funds from the St. Augustine Center Assoc. and hired the Gallup Organization to conduct a national poll asking Catholics, "Which one of the following statements do you think best reflects your belief?" Only 30% of the respondents chose the 1st option which was "When receiving Holy Communion, you are really and truly receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ under the appearance of bread and wine. 29% indicated "you are receiving bread and wine, which symbolize the spirit and teachings of Jesus and in doing so you are expressing your attachment to His person and words. 24% believed, "you are receiving the Body and Blood of Christ which has become that because of your *personal belief*. 10% said, "you are receiving bread and wine in which Jesus is truly present, finally 8% said, "none of the above" or "don't know" or refused to answer. So as you can see bev, the *mainstream Catholic* of today is either not knowledgeable or they are ignoring certain teachings with their own *personal beliefs*. In the worst cases we have lead shepherds that have their own personal beliefs and they are teaching error to priests and the laity. Is it criticizing a belief or is it clarifying and upholding church teaching? bev, please read, "A blunt letter to Catholics"

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 7:49 PM By k
I want to add that the Truth of the Eucharist is "When recieving Holy Communion, you are really and truly receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ under the appearance of bread and wine." The whole Christ is present is each species. The bread and wine cease to exist-there is nothing present in the Eucharist but the Living Jesus Christ. Bev and all-I know you know this but I wanted to have this on the post in case someone reads it who doesn't know. Bev-I understand your reaction to the labelling. Some of the posters seem to have a real sense of embattlement and they word their posts very strongly at times. If they were addressing a specific person as the "devil incarnate" (a term I found theologically puzzling-I was interested to see where that came from) it would be uncharitable. And truly there are enemies of the church both within and without. Some we can name because they consciously and intentionally are enemies of the church. They would be proud to be called that. Others are unwittingly taking part in things which harm the faith, either through ignorance or non-acceptance. But again, the poster acknowledged that he calls them "progressive" Catholics when he is being charitable, so he knew that the other terms were somewhat inflammatory.

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 8:53 PM By k
Angelo, did the story about the devil crying "non serviam " as he was being cast into hell come from St. Catherine of Siena, also?

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:12 PM By bev
TTH: I read CCD in an attempt to correct/clarify any comments about the Church, especially in the SF Bay Area, which I feel are inaccurate.

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:26 PM By Angelo
k, "progressive Catholics when he is being charitable, so he knew that the other terms were somewhat inflammatory." Now thats a cunning way of putting it. What I said was, "out of charity I call them progressives." As far as inflammatory, I don't see it that way. We have had 45 years of sugar coated words. Words that have gotten us no where. I suppose Moses, Our Lord and St. John the Baptist when they were acting charitably, they knew their other words were inflammatory. There was a Saint who would say, "Sometimes a slap on the face, is better than a few kind words." Scripture calls us to speak the Truth with boldness. Not with false empty sweetness. There is some old saying that says something about the best way of advancing evil is for us to remain silent. The sweet word days are over, its time we yell it from the rooftops. By the way when I use "somewhat inflammatory" language it is always out love of God and Neighbor. I desire the Eternal Salvation of all.

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:32 PM By The Truth Hurts
k, I still remember the conference I attended where we were taught how to fight the error and injustice within the church. The canon lawyer was asked, "Why isn't Rome doing anything?" He responded, "Rome knows how bad it is. They are waiting for the laity to learn and uphold the teachings. Yes, there is a battle and yes, God wins. I was recently informed that a local parish passed out the new year Church Calendar for parishioners. There was nothing really Catholic on this Church Calendar. No pictures of Jesus or Mary, apostles, saints, just horses in fields, a bowl of eggs, fruit. Little by little they have removed what is sacred until the average Catholic thinks that everything is just fine. I always find it interesting when people do not openly defend the faith but then they openly attain the courage to correct someone who is knowledgeable about the error taking place and the passionate messenger gets the correction, not the error. k, Even our new Pastoral Appeal is called "Proud to be a Catholic in Orange County" That is so goofy! I wonder who came up with this idea? That Church Calendar is certainly not proud to be a Catholic in Orange County. It makes one wonder if someone thinks that by giving money, that can make you a proud member. I am always proud to be a Catholic but after one of the largest payouts for the sex abuse scandals in Orange County the title should have been "Humbled to be a Catholic in Orange County" not proud to be a Catholic in Orange County." This is so out of touch with the wisdom, the humility, and the prudence of traditional Catholicism. There is such a thirst for wisdom and prudence. He who foolishly exalts himself as proud, just barely after the ink is dry on the payouts for the horrific sex abuse scandals, will surely be humbled again.

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:35 PM By Angelo
K, The answer is no. It comes from sacred scipture. The cry of satan was "Non serviam, non serviam" while the cry of Saint Michael the Archangel was, "Who is like God? Who is like God?" The cry of St.Michael is the Victory cry of those who defend God and his Holy Catholic Church, even to the point of dying for Christ.

Posted Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:08 AM By k
Angelo, I am sorry that I misquoted you and made an inference concerning your intentions that was not true. I wasn't trying to be cunning at all. I was actually standing up for you. Sorry I offended. But you can see from Bev's response, that when you use terms like that what someone who is unaware of the issues (I don't mean Bev) will focus on your delivery and they will miss the message. It just makes you look bad. Among those who are very aware of the issues, they are not inflammatory at all. In fact, they are quite descriptive. Additionally, I am very sure that the "Non serviam" story is not from the Bible, but if I am wrong, I would like to know where to find it. The Truth Hurts, secularism is the most prominent form of atheism and you are correct. It has infiltrated the Church to an alarming degree. I am interested in learning about the conference you referred to. Can you tell me about it?

Posted Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM By The Truth Hurts
k, This particular conference was a few years ago. I have been to other different ones since. The laity, simple, humble, wonderfully faithful Catholics in the Fresno area paid for this conference. Several speakers were brought in to speak on current events that were happening within the Church. There was also an apologetics debate which was very interesting. One of the Groups that spoke was the St. Joseph Foundation from San Antonio, Texas. They work on Canonical issues and they were very helpful. One of the priests that spoke was the new spokesperson for HLI. Any area can have a conference like this if you get enough people to support it. It is always good to let the Bishop know and although a Bishop has the authority to not approve it, very rarely is it disapproved of because the people are all abiding by Church Teaching. There should be nothing but support for these. I did hear that Father Corapi was banned from a few areas by a local Bishop but faithful Catholics know how obedient Father Corapi is and he obeys. Father Corapi preaches the truth as you have seen on EWTN. k, I drove with friends from Southern Ca. to attend this. It was wonderful to see faithful Catholics concerned about the error and dissent. Maybe you can have one in your area. Some people donated airplane miles for the speakers to be flown in. Some donated hotel rooms for the speakers and some donated money to hold the conference in a large public space. These conferences are most beneficial. I do remember at one conference, Father Corapi encouraged Catholics to brush up on the teachings because a time was fast approaching where many people would have their faith tested and that Catholics needed to be prepared to give answers. I hope this has helped k!

Posted Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:44 PM By k
The Truth Hurts-thank you. That is helpful. I appreciate it.

Posted Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:43 PM By Angelo
K, I don't mind looking bad. As a priest used to say, "When I decided to serve God, it was not my intention to enter a popularity contest." By bev's response, it seems Bev is the one who used uncharitable judgement. When I wrote those words, she did not know that they were words of battle in charity to stand up for God and to defend his people from error. I did a little research and you are right, the words "Non Serviam" themselves are not in scripture. But the fact of "Non serviam" is in scripture from Genesis to the Apocalypse. The Church for 2000 years has attributed these words "Non serviam, Non serviam" to lucifer and his angels by their sin of pride. They refused to serve God and demanded themselves to be served. The Name of St. Michael means "Who is like God!!!" And the Church has always held that upon St. Michael and the good Angels victorious battle against lucifer and the bad Angels. St. Michaels cry was his own name, "Who is like God!!!, Who is like God!!!" satans cry is still "Non serviam" and those who reject God live it in unison with satan, living a life of "Non serviam, Non serviam". Also the battle between the Good and bad Angels was not one of guns or rockets. It was of the fiercest of an intellectial battle.

Posted Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:18 PM By k
Angelo, thanks for your response. I had always heard that the devil's sin was one of pride. I had heard that Michael's name means Who Is Like God? and that is how he defeated Satan. So the rest would fit. Now, I do not know Bev but she said she was mainstream Catholic as are 95% of parishioners. This would mean to me that she attends Mass and tries to follow the Golden Rule and be nice and loving to all. She says she doesn't call names and criticize others so I'm sure she did not intend to offend you. There is a longing among many for peace, love, kindness, light. It is what the Church is supposed to be. People see love in different ways. This may be why Bev reacted negatively. As you and others point out, we cannot condone error or sin; we need to speak up. There are those who are obstinate in their infidelity. I have found that they do not accept that God's will is made known through the Magisterium. They consider the declarations of the Church to be the will of men. This then is the difference. Perhaps they create their own image of God based on their personal inclinations. Obedience allows one to perform at a level greater than one's own understanding. Angelo and Bev, I know you know this-I am just on my soapbox. Thanks for your indulgence.

Posted Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:40 PM By Abeca Christian
Angelo excellent comments you made from Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:19 PM. People keep forgetting that the name calling is not from us, they are from what we learned to be acceptable from the saints, the bible etc. It's interesting how we can't call a woman a mistress because she may be offended, or how about "a sodomite" when they commit sodomy? If the word sodomite offends someone, why then commit such evil unnatural acts,(oh wait I just offended someone with calling that sin/action evil) just think how much more it offends God. We humans have to get off our high horse, we are not better than God. We offend Him daily and yet this life still goes on. Why are we angry at words used on actions that describe them truthfully.

Posted Friday, January 21, 2011 2:47 PM By Abeca Christian
It depends on the temperament of a person, of a soul, depends on their convictions and zeal for reaching truth in humility. If a person is peaceful they find other ways to communicate that may be less confrontational but if a person is more blunt and walking in the path of truth, you'll catch them once in a while or more than once, practice backbone and call things the way they really are without sugar coating them.

Posted Friday, January 21, 2011 8:22 PM By k
Abeca, the initial article here was about Cardinal Burke. In his forward to the book 'Homosexuality and the Catholic Church" by Fr. John S. Harvey O.S.F.S. ( the founder of Courage and Encourage-groups that support those struggling with same sex attraction and their families) he writes: "The genius of the support groups is the recognition that homosexuality is not the identity of the person who struggles with same sex attraction." This is one of the reasons the word "sodomite" is offensive. The word "sodomite" is not just offensive to gays. It is a shocking word. It is a graphic word with explicit sexual connotation. It is crass and vulgar. It is a word that degrades and is used to diminish the dignity of another human being. You learned it from a saint? From what century? The only Bibles in which I see the word in are from past centuries, also. I understand a little better why you don't understand the offense if you are unfamiliar with semantics. We don't call heterosexuals "fornicators" anymore, either. But many fundamentalist preachers do because they use the King James Version of the Bible. You have helped me understand what the difficulty is.

Posted Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:45 AM By Matt
Sorry k. We are not going to change the language because you find it offensive when it is TRUTHFUL. Yes, homosexual acts are crass and vulgar as you stated. Homosexual is a sexual word that is explicit. Same sex persons who are having SEX are clearly 'Sodomites". Read the dictionary regarding sodomy and sodomites. Homosexuals are called "sodomites" in ALL Bibles. Yes we do call heterosexuals who are unmarried and having sex fornicators. Fornication, Adultary, Homosexual Acts, Masterbation, Pornography are all Mortal Sins - and we don't change the languarge for anyone else, so why should we treat gays differently ! Gays want special treatment so their sins do not appear to be so bad, and this is objectionable.

Posted Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:01 PM By Anne T.
K, even today when a woman is raped, the newspapers often mention that she was "sodomized" and use the word "sodomize". It is still a word that is used for that type of behavior although most of us avoid calling people "fornicators, sodomites, etc, because most of the time it defeats the purpose and only makes many people more angry and unwilling to change at all. Never-the-less, the truth is that when any of us commit any of those sins, that is exactly what we are just as we are thieves when we steal or liars when we lie. I am often at lost as to what to call a man or woman who are living together. I was catigated once for introducing a relative's live-in "girlfriend" as his "significant other", but what DO you call a woman who is living with a man to whom she is not married? Or a man living with woman to whom he is not married? The truthful words are "mistress" or "lover", but certainly not "wife" or "husband". People put themselves in those positions and expect the rest of us to cave into what they want to be called, when most of them cannot even agree on a term. (Lots of laughs.) The latest trendy word is "companion", that is until someone gets offended at that. I gotten to the point where I no longer care. The offense is their own fault and their own fault alone.

Posted Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:49 PM By Abeca Christian
The dignity of a person is destroyed or lost when they lack acts of contrition! There are different levels of sinfulness leading to spiritual blindness. Disrespecting Human dignity in the spiritual realm, is when a society does not understand the severity of certain sins that will bring forth their loss of salvation, is when a society does condones or encourages a life leading to damnation! Human dignity is connected to salvation in Christ! I'm more interested in not offending my Lord. God has set His laws on what is natural, He has set His laws for mankind to live here on earth leading towards the greater for human dignity but man keeps messing up and this is why we are in such big messes. He does not deserve what we do to offend Him!

Posted Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:10 PM By Abeca Christian
k all the books in the world will not mean a thing if we don't love our Lord greater than our own understanding! When I pray, I seek to connect with my Lord, to know Him, I ask daily "Jesus show me your face, your real You" The Holy Ghost just seems to give us those blessings when we genuinely seek a relationship with Jesus. It's that simple, intimacy with the heart of Jesus seems a lot more comforting than the reading of all things. What good is it to gain the knowledge of all things if we don't gain closeness with/in Jesus to better lead us to truth and His understanding! I'm more interested in growing my relationship with Jesus first, the rest comes later. That is why I find the sin of sodomy such a grave sin! It offends our Lord greatly! It offends human dignity! The Act is an immoral sin! k I've been around homosexuals, know their stories, from my personal experience I know how that lifestyles destroys their human dignity, that knowledge of them has drawn me to that conclusion. All you do is read what the church teaches but to know first hand about that sinful lifestyles is another story and with that knowledge I see the spiritual side of things more than what any book can try to convey!

Posted Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:17 PM By k
abeca, You are correct on everything. When you are ministering to homosexual persons or anyone else, may God give you the right words.

Posted Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:26 PM By Abeca Christian
k I've replied to your post from January 21, 2011 8:22 PM before my last two posts but for some reason the post did not go through. I'll pray that God will reply for me since I was not allowed to do so, he will show you the way. He is in full control. God bless you my friend. : ) As I see Matt has already done a great job at it. Right on Matt! You too Anne T! Thank you Jesus!

Posted Sunday, January 23, 2011 3:02 PM By Mark from PA
K, thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I understand what you are saying. Matt, I can't imagine that you call unmarried people who are living together fornicators. Most people don't speak to others that way.

Posted Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:24 PM By Abeca Christian
k just so you know. I have never used the word sodomite when describing the acts or a person that I personally know, well not that I can remember, but I have brought up the word in defense of persons posting here, because they use that word to describe the action of those sins and I don't find anything wrong with that word. Now on the other hand, I have never called directly a homosexual a sodomite to their face because I'm prudent enough and can discern that it is not the right time to do so especially if I'm trying to guide them in the right path or if I'm trying to witness to them. Here on generalizing is OK because we are describing the act that is sinful! I hope you get what i am trying to say.

Posted Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:58 PM By k
Matt, Anne T, Abeca, I understand your justification for using that word. However, the possiblity exists that your use of the term may block the path to salvation for someone who needs it. They may spend many more years in sin, because of the idea that they will be judged harshly if they approach the Catholic Church. Father Harvey, founder of Courage, passed to the next life in December. Eternal rest grant unto him and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen.

Posted Monday, January 24, 2011 1:12 AM By Matt
Admonishing Sinners and Counselling the Doubtful are two Spiritual Works of Mercy. If you love your neighbor as required by Jesus you will want them to get to Heaven. Using the correct terminology (as in the New Testament) is very important rather than watering mortal sins down so that it appears somewhat OK. If you don't call two heterosexuals who are unmarried and having sexual relations 'fornicators' what do you personally call them? - Good buddies? And if so, how does that admonish sinners and instruct the ignorant ?"

Posted Monday, January 24, 2011 9:47 AM By k
Matt, you call them people. If you are talking about them, you would call them people who are having sex without benefit of marriage, or people who are cohabitating. If you are talking to them, use their names. I was told by a priest that the proper way to admonish the sinner is to say to them in private, "I am having a difficulty with something you are doing (with your living together, or with your relationship). Are you willing to discuss it with me?" Then you can explain why you are concerned. Obviously, the kinds of grave sins we have been discussing here, have very serious consequences both in this life and the next. The main problem I have found in admonishing in these private areas is that Catholics are very aware of the Church's teaching and either have rejected it or make fun of it. People will be polite to you and listen and then tell you, "i don't believe that." or "I don't believe God will put me (or anybody)in hell." Are you aware that 60% of couples who present themselves for marriage in the church are cohabitating? But you should admonish, because there may be a person who either has no idea that what there doing is wrong or because they suspect it but have never been affirmed in it. Especially in this area, people are very vulnerable. They may be doing it, not out of lust, but out of fear of rejection or just not knowing how to get out of it. Great sensitivity is needed. Kindness goes a lot farther than judgementalism. People are easily hurt and many people do not have the emotional coping skills to deal with it. Abeca, I thought that you were prudent enough not to use that word, and that you were just making the point that it was accurate. I am glad you verified that.

Posted Monday, January 24, 2011 5:31 PM By Abeca Christian
This society has changed so much. The reason we are worst off now than we were 30 years, 15 years or so ago, it is because people are not admonishing sinners, we are not looking down on sinful behavior, or they are not calling sin what it really is, they are too soft etc. Even when you are nice to point out sinful behavior, you will still receive an unkind remark but it is OK, no one ever said that carrying our cross here on earth will ever be easy. When we speak out loud the disapproval of sinful acts or actions, the person directed at or hearing it may not appreciate it but you never know who else is listening and it may get the attention of someone else we least expect, it may give them a change of heart. Onward Catholic Soldiers of Christ!

Posted Monday, January 24, 2011 10:39 PM By k
abeca, it is not the lack of admonishment. The media holds up the people who admonish (the Pope, the Southern Baptist Conference, Franklin Graham) as judgemental bigots. Sexuality (among the young) has been totally removed from the moral landscape. The worst sin, these days, (aside from murder) is criticising someone (and rash judgement, truly, is a sin). What has changed (maybe) is an increase in narcissism. A narcissists uses others as a mirror to show them their perfection. If you criticize them, they look for a fault in the mirror. Selfishness is seen as a virtue. Eastern religions where salvation is not an issue have permeated the common culture. Family is the people who are "there for you" not the people who are biologically related to you. Family systems are dysfunctional and oftentimes abusive. Discipline is non-existent. The one thing that is still valued is helping others in need. They don't believe in punishment; they don't believe in the God of Revelation. They create their own rituals and their own moral systems. It absolutely takes God's grace to convert them. This is why the request for the rosary to be prayed daily was made by the Blessed Mother. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be argumentative. I just think that the situation is beyond human help. We need to always tell the truth-about sin, about redemption. We are supposed to preach the Gospel-that Jesus Christ died so that their sins could be forgiven. Many people accept Christ when they are at a point of hopelessness, when their sins have caused them such calamitous consequences that they have no where else to turn. And they turn to the evangelical Christians, the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses because they are the ones going door to door to take the good news to people. We need to evangelize and everything we do needs to be done with the good of souls in mind-sometimes speak, sometimes wait. Always pray.

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